Sunday, March 28, 2010

Reflection: His Master's Voice

First off, Phil, I am definitely NOT a bastard! Unless, of course, somewhere between the course of graduating with a bachelor's of science and getting your PhD, you suddenly become completely disingenuous to society and decide that it's not worth your time. I can't say for sure, though. Graduate school can be a scary place.

I want to dedicate this post to the scientists of the world. The general consensus on HMV, at least from discussion and posts, that the book is firmly in a kind of "anti-scientist" camp. We've arrived in a situation where, when prompted with the PTJ's question of who do we entrust the message to, half the class is ready to throw it to the poets instead of the scientists (at least no one really threw it to the government camp). And before that, PTJ asked what kind of success we can attribute to HMV, comparing it to something like the Manhatten Project. Where we ended up was a kind of vilification of the scientific process, where we look at HMV, with its lack of answers and say "these guys suck because they got nothing definite out of it". Personally, I find that trend extremely disturbing in. Let me try and convince you that the HMV project, as it was outlined in the book, couldn't have been given to the "elves".

First off, the question of the "success" of the project. Whatever happened to the scientific method? You guys remember that, right? Going in with an attitude of whether or not something is "successful" is influencing your results from the start. In the end, that's what the government wanted in HMV. From the beginning of the project, it was pretty obvious the military wanted some kind of weapon from it. Imagine if drug companies ran trials predicated on whether or not their drug worked, and when their drug killed people instead of helping them, walked away calling it "unsuccessful" and fail to publish results (well... actually they do this pretty often, despite it being quite illegal). Just because you negate a possibility doesn't mean it's unsuccessful! In science, the very definition of success can be the negation of theories. Therefore, PTJ's question about the success of the HMV isn't even a legitimate question! That line of thinking arises from our basic assumption that the signal actually is a message, that it somehow means something, which is probably a common view point. It's the wrong view point.

But, of course, there are practical problems here. Let's go back to my "pure" science argument from class, which is really a distinction of "science for the sake of science" and "science for humanity". Science for the sake of science is something like what I do for research right now - that is, looking at the evolutionary relationships within a phylum of marine worms that have NOTHING to do with humanity. That's science for the sake of science. You can't really say my research is "successful", because it has no expected end-point. We're simply looking to expand humanity's knowledge. Of course, you can say whether or not the science in it is valid (like, you can't just throw away results you don't like), but it's not like I'm looking to make something out of these worms. Science for humanity is something like cancer research. It has a goal, and it can actually be judged on a scale of "success". But there, we know there is an attainable end-product. We have enough knowledge to form protocols - we know cancer is the result of human cell mutation, and not, say, alien cells inhabiting our bodies.

In His Master's Voice, the government treats the interstellar message like it's cancer research. This is the wrong approach. Discovering the TX effect during the HMV project is equivalent to me discovering that my marine worms produce weapons grade plutonium out of their rectum. It would be a product of research, but not a goal of research. So, we know the government took the wrong approach to HMV, but is there any evidence that their expectation of a product from the research directly affected the science of the project? Clearly hardly any of the scientists at HMV were government officials, and had no purposeful drive to make some kind of weapon. And clearly, all sorts of research was allowed, and Hogarth didn't mention research purposely stifled by the government. Perhaps the only influence of the government was the secrecy of the project and its placement of scientists in one facility - but it's evident from the book that this helped research, since public release of information hasn't led to many more successes.

So, would I give the project over to purely the government? No, since they clearly have motivations which hinder their success. We're already seen how being biased toward the message didn't help. Certainly just looking for a weapon isn't the best option. Of course, the second option is what we've collectively called the "poets", or people who think "outside the box". That's all well and good, but I see one massive problem there: they have no ability to work with quantifiable data. Sure, an artist or a poet thinks differently about the world than a scientist, but what could they do with it? Without some kind of quantitative analysis of it, something only the scientists are equipped to do, the poet is trapped in the realm of the physiological qualitative analysis. And, of course, early on in the book, Hogarth runs through what is effectively a proof on how physiological qualitative analysis of the message is one of the most biased ways of looking at the message. It's like trying to force it into a human context when there is no human context.

The most immediate opposition to this point that I can see is the "philosopher argument", where someone could apply qualitative analysis to the message without bringing in their physiological biases, someone who would think "outside the box". This is all a well and good theory, but in practice, it's hardly doable. How could someone who didn't have scientific training think qualitatively about massive amounts of very specific data? It doesn't work - it's not that easy, nor is it that simple.

Let me end by saying that Hogarth's critique's of the scientists he was working with was valid. But what I think many who read the book failed to realize that Hogarth wasn't criticizing all of science, he was criticizing bad science. And for people who don't really know a lot about how science works, it's hard to tell good science from bad science. Hogarth obviously had it out for scientists who thought there was some kind of "goal" for the message, or outright believed that it was obviously a message of good or evil. He was denouncing having a bias going into it. And, at the same time, he was criticizing them for not thinking outside the box - they weren't being creative, and they weren't relying on quantitative data to back them up. In reality, what the HMV really needed was zero government involvement in terms of driving towards a goal, and a team of scientists who had the ability to analyze their data as if they were "philosophers". In the end, it got a little bit of that, but certainly not enough. What HMV pointed out was the fragility of scientific understanding, and just how much we DON'T know. In science, and hopefully in all disciplines, the more you know, the more you realize you don't know. HMV was a grand testament to how much we don't know. And that's a good thing.

5 comments:

  1. I agree with you completely. Mind you, I'm not a scientist, so my obvious predilection is to look at the social and anthropological implications of this novel, but you make a really interesting point: what we keep criticizing, when we insist on going back to the poets, etc., is the lack of creativity or originality. And that's not all science, it's just this biased bureaucratic bs that the HMV project has to undergo. And I understand that the poets and the dreamers wouldn't be in a position to understand neutrinos. But that's why this whole concept of alien contact is so frustrating: unless we are actively relying on them to interpret US, or help us interpret THEM, we'll be utterly at a loss. And if they're as stuck in their ways as we are, they'll be in the same place. No common ground.

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  2. I don't know Andrew...Scientists could be bastards when they wish to be so. I think one of the most obvious example is the discussion over adding Fluorine into drinking waters. A leading book on this is The Flouride Deception by Christopher Bryson.

    This one book that I read traced Flourine debate back to the Manhattan Project and how experiments indicating negative effects of flourine were destroyed while experiments with "no effect" were preserved. Given the fact that many of the industrial waste contained flourine, adding flourine to waters might even allow companies to turn even their wastes into profit.

    Scientists do not do science out of the goodness of their hearts. They do it for money. That is not to say that you as an individual are a bastard. I think being a bastard is eventually a phase that politicians, scientists etc. all go through at one point in their lives.



    Here is the documentary:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Idd8IlKEKhg


    Here is the book: "The Flourine Deception"
    http://books.google.com/books?id=q3v_JgjZ6fsC&dq=Fluoride+Deception+book&printsec=frontcover&source=bn&hl=en&ei=HxGwS4qGH4SKlwe_o7yQAQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=6&ved=0CCcQ6AEwBQ#v=onepage&q=Fluoride%20Deception%20book&f=false

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  3. There are a lot of scientists in the world and it's unfair to lump them all together as bastards. Some can be motivated by money, some can want to help people. I feel that most scientists, however, are motivated by curiosity. They want to expand knowledge. And, like Andrew said, it's not the "I wonder what happens if I stick a metal fork into an electrical outlet" kind of curiosity, but a controlled curiosity, one that follows a specific method.

    After class I called my dad (physicist) and asked him why he's conducting his experiment. He told me that he's doing it because he wants to learn, to know why. His experiment has no immediate benefits he could profit from, nor will it help humanity. He's not expecting any specific result. He wants to be the first one to get results (he's only human), but even that doesn't really matter. Even if another scientist in the world completes their experiment first, my dad's experiment is still important to verify the initial results.

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  4. First of all, Nord See, I have to admit it's difficult for me to look at something like fluorination of water and not have an immediate reaction of "well that's going to be wrong". It's obviously a built in bias I have to trust the government. But, because I wanted to know more, I took a look at the first few minutes of your youtube video. Amazingly enough, I KNOW Dr. Hirzey, he works here at AU! And HE is cited early in the video as saying that fluoride in the water system is based on bad science. I'll tell you right now I plan on talking to him about this, and finishing your documentary when I have time.

    Second, I think that citation of Dr. Hirzey in the beginning of the video hurts your argument. I think what you meant to say is "people could be bastards when they wish to be so", not "scientists could be bastards when they wish to be so". It's too great a generalization to just say "scientists", and I think you allude to this when you say "I think being a bastard is eventually a phase that politicians, scientists etc. all go through at one point in their lives", although I really have to disagree when you say "all". That's pretty demeaning to those of us who mean well. If scientists really all went through "bastard stages", do you think Dr. Hirzey would fight against it? Second, would you go into his office and tell him at one point in his life, he used his science to be a bastard?

    Another statement I think is pretty demeaning is when you say "Scientists do not do science out of the goodness of their hearts. They do it for money." I can't help but laugh at this, because trust me, the pay SUCKS. Post-doctoral students make LESS than the minimum wage from their stipend on average. I know many of my colleagues could of EASILY gone into other fields, excelled, and made six figures.

    I think, Nord See, your general disillusionment of science comes from the science of industry. Let me assure you, there are legions of biologists, chemists, and physicists out there that are NOT funded by any kind of industry. Second, industry science works best when regulated - which is why we have the EPA, USDA, and the FDA. It may not always work, but it's better than nothing. Industry can often provide the impetus for great advances, we just have to be careful about it.

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  5. Andrew,

    Thanks for that response. Yes, I know Dr.Hirzy and I learned about this book from him. I have tremendous amount of respect for him. So, this is not an issue of respect, but a philosophical one.

    Scientists, are human. They are prone to mistakes; they are obviously not robots. However, there is a distinction between being prone to mistakes and knowingly making mistakes. I guess my point was that there are people who use their profession for wrong purposes and wrong ideals, and with wrong motivations. Scientists are no different; with too much power invested in their position they could use it for wrong purposes.

    I believe in the power of science. I am truly amazed by all that it has offered to us so far and all the hard work scientists are putting into finding cure for HIV, Cancer and etc.
    So I think I meant to say, science does not lie, people lie. But it boils down to guns don't kill people, people kill people debate. Though I agree with you in that I should not have over generalized, I think I stand by my statement that "the scientists do not do science out of the goodness of their hearts- they do it for money."

    I know many science students driven by a cause as they study science. They are scientists by the definition of vocation they perceive their job not as a mere occupation. I should have differentiated my use of word "scientists." I was referring more to people who do this job primarily for money. But, I'm wondering if same distinction can be made with, say, politicians? Are there good politicians with good motivations? I mean, they really can't be looking for truth...or could they?

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